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	<title>Comments on: Why students fail to transfer what they learn</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.sciencegeekgirl.com/2008/11/17/why-students-fail-to-transfer-what-they-learn/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.sciencegeekgirl.com/2008/11/17/why-students-fail-to-transfer-what-they-learn/</link>
	<description>science education, communication, and myths</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 14:57:13 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Watch Year One Online Free</title>
		<link>http://blog.sciencegeekgirl.com/2008/11/17/why-students-fail-to-transfer-what-they-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-1602</link>
		<dc:creator>Watch Year One Online Free</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Jun 2009 19:48:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sciencegeekgirl.com/?p=840#comment-1602</guid>
		<description>This is very up-to-date info. I&#039;ll share it on Twitter.
p.s. Year One is already on the Internet and you can watch it for free.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is very up-to-date info. I&#8217;ll share it on Twitter.<br />
p.s. Year One is already on the Internet and you can watch it for free.</p>
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		<title>By: sciencegeekgirl &#187; [Clickers in upper-division physics] 4. Tips for success</title>
		<link>http://blog.sciencegeekgirl.com/2008/11/17/why-students-fail-to-transfer-what-they-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-1451</link>
		<dc:creator>sciencegeekgirl &#187; [Clickers in upper-division physics] 4. Tips for success</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 06:47:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sciencegeekgirl.com/?p=840#comment-1451</guid>
		<description>[...] Clickers set students up to learn more from your lecture. Once they&#8217;ve struggled with the concept or idea, then when you do give your brilliant lecture, they&#8217;ll get a lot more out of it. To quote Dan Schwartz, there is a time for telling, it&#8217;s just not too soon. (more on this idea here and here). [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Clickers set students up to learn more from your lecture. Once they&#8217;ve struggled with the concept or idea, then when you do give your brilliant lecture, they&#8217;ll get a lot more out of it. To quote Dan Schwartz, there is a time for telling, it&#8217;s just not too soon. (more on this idea here and here). [...]</p>
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		<title>By: sciencegeekgirl</title>
		<link>http://blog.sciencegeekgirl.com/2008/11/17/why-students-fail-to-transfer-what-they-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-487</link>
		<dc:creator>sciencegeekgirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 15:38:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sciencegeekgirl.com/?p=840#comment-487</guid>
		<description>Yes, there are definitely some similarities, in that both approaches require students to wrestle with an idea and come up with their own model of something before the &quot;expert&quot; instructor comes and guides them in any way.

There are some differences, however.  Modeling is explicitly a way to train students in scientific thinking and approach to problems.  The &quot;models&quot; they are coming up with are quite a bit broad -- eg., a mathematical and physical formulation of an understanding of an Atwood Machine -- supported by data and applied to different situations.  Schwartz&#039;s Invention Activities are a bit more targeted to key concepts, such as &quot;density&quot; or or &quot;variance&quot; or  &quot;vectors.&quot;  It&#039;s a way to get students to think about a situation and (like modeling) recognize the key elements that go into creating a definition, before the expert comes and gives the common way to approach that term.  His activities tend to be very visual.

So, in a way, invention activities are helping students wrestle with the key terms that would go into creating a model in Modeling Physics.  They&#039;re smaller, more fundamental chunks than are dealt with in Modeling, and less tied to phenomena.

Here&#039;s a nice summary from the website that Frank included:
http://modeling.asu.edu/modeling/mod_cycle.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, there are definitely some similarities, in that both approaches require students to wrestle with an idea and come up with their own model of something before the &#8220;expert&#8221; instructor comes and guides them in any way.</p>
<p>There are some differences, however.  Modeling is explicitly a way to train students in scientific thinking and approach to problems.  The &#8220;models&#8221; they are coming up with are quite a bit broad &#8212; eg., a mathematical and physical formulation of an understanding of an Atwood Machine &#8212; supported by data and applied to different situations.  Schwartz&#8217;s Invention Activities are a bit more targeted to key concepts, such as &#8220;density&#8221; or or &#8220;variance&#8221; or  &#8220;vectors.&#8221;  It&#8217;s a way to get students to think about a situation and (like modeling) recognize the key elements that go into creating a definition, before the expert comes and gives the common way to approach that term.  His activities tend to be very visual.</p>
<p>So, in a way, invention activities are helping students wrestle with the key terms that would go into creating a model in Modeling Physics.  They&#8217;re smaller, more fundamental chunks than are dealt with in Modeling, and less tied to phenomena.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a nice summary from the website that Frank included:<br />
<a href="http://modeling.asu.edu/modeling/mod_cycle.html" rel="nofollow">http://modeling.asu.edu/modeling/mod_cycle.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Frank Noschese</title>
		<link>http://blog.sciencegeekgirl.com/2008/11/17/why-students-fail-to-transfer-what-they-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-488</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Noschese</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Dec 2008 19:42:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sciencegeekgirl.com/?p=840#comment-488</guid>
		<description>This research, and Dianne&#039;s observations about activities as notes, is quite similar to Modeling Physics:

http://modeling.asu.edu/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This research, and Dianne&#8217;s observations about activities as notes, is quite similar to Modeling Physics:</p>
<p><a href="http://modeling.asu.edu/" rel="nofollow">http://modeling.asu.edu/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Bill Ward</title>
		<link>http://blog.sciencegeekgirl.com/2008/11/17/why-students-fail-to-transfer-what-they-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-493</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Ward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 19:36:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sciencegeekgirl.com/?p=840#comment-493</guid>
		<description>Oh wait, I didn&#039;t read carefully enough.  Nevermind.  Green FTW!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh wait, I didn&#8217;t read carefully enough.  Nevermind.  Green FTW!</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Ward</title>
		<link>http://blog.sciencegeekgirl.com/2008/11/17/why-students-fail-to-transfer-what-they-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-492</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Ward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 19:34:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sciencegeekgirl.com/?p=840#comment-492</guid>
		<description>Hire the blue people.  You can always fire the dumb ones, or assign them to tasks that don&#039;t require intelligence.  But you&#039;ll end up with a few really smart folks who can make the company more successful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hire the blue people.  You can always fire the dumb ones, or assign them to tasks that don&#8217;t require intelligence.  But you&#8217;ll end up with a few really smart folks who can make the company more successful.</p>
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		<title>By: sciencegeekgirl</title>
		<link>http://blog.sciencegeekgirl.com/2008/11/17/why-students-fail-to-transfer-what-they-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-491</link>
		<dc:creator>sciencegeekgirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 17:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sciencegeekgirl.com/?p=840#comment-491</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m so glad you find this stuff as compelling as I do, Dianne.  If you have any questions, please feel free to post them.  In particular, I think his focus on contrasting cases to highlight the deep structure that experts take for granted is key, and a bit tough to grasp.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m so glad you find this stuff as compelling as I do, Dianne.  If you have any questions, please feel free to post them.  In particular, I think his focus on contrasting cases to highlight the deep structure that experts take for granted is key, and a bit tough to grasp.</p>
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		<title>By: Dianne</title>
		<link>http://blog.sciencegeekgirl.com/2008/11/17/why-students-fail-to-transfer-what-they-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-494</link>
		<dc:creator>Dianne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 22:39:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sciencegeekgirl.com/?p=840#comment-494</guid>
		<description>The post about Dan Schwarz really hit home with me.  I see this problem with transference daily.  My science students have trouble applying what they learned in math to science formulas and vice versa. They also have trouble moving past the examples in the lectures and reading.  My school district a few years ago began pushing inquiry science which sounds very similar to what Dan Scwharz is saying.  In my own teaching, I find that when I use a laboratory activity for their notes, the students seem to catch on to the material faster.

I plan on looking into Dan Schwarz&#039;s research more closely.  I think it could have a profound impact on my teaching.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The post about Dan Schwarz really hit home with me.  I see this problem with transference daily.  My science students have trouble applying what they learned in math to science formulas and vice versa. They also have trouble moving past the examples in the lectures and reading.  My school district a few years ago began pushing inquiry science which sounds very similar to what Dan Scwharz is saying.  In my own teaching, I find that when I use a laboratory activity for their notes, the students seem to catch on to the material faster.</p>
<p>I plan on looking into Dan Schwarz&#8217;s research more closely.  I think it could have a profound impact on my teaching.</p>
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		<title>By: sciencegeekgirl</title>
		<link>http://blog.sciencegeekgirl.com/2008/11/17/why-students-fail-to-transfer-what-they-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-495</link>
		<dc:creator>sciencegeekgirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 15:42:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sciencegeekgirl.com/?p=840#comment-495</guid>
		<description>Hi Lorn,

I&#039;m so glad you liked the post!  And actually your responses are a perfect example of the usefulness of the Preparation for Future Learning activities.  Your arguments are very similar to what college students argue when given this task, without having first struggled with issues of variance in another task.  They say that IQ tests aren&#039;t valid, that there are other things important than hiring in IQ, etc.

However, if you look at the SPREAD in the scores for the blue versus the green people, you&#039;ll see that while, on average, the blue people have a higher IQ, the green people actually have more people with an IQ above 104.  In fact if you took the average of the top 20% of the green people, it would likely be higher than the blue people. Another thing to look at is the variability around the median.  If you find the middle person (that&#039;s #22), you&#039;ll see that in the blue people, all the people around #22 have IQ&#039;s of 101. The green people around #22 have a much higher spread of IQ.

Most people who haven&#039;t been prepared to think about variability give more meta-arguments about whether or not it&#039;s useful to compare people on IQ, as you did, and don&#039;t look at the data.  I&#039;m not saying your arguments aren&#039;t good ones, but there are other arguments based on the data that can be made.  Your comment about sample size is a good one based on the data, but there are other data-based arguments to be made.

Thanks for your post!

Stephanie</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Lorn,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m so glad you liked the post!  And actually your responses are a perfect example of the usefulness of the Preparation for Future Learning activities.  Your arguments are very similar to what college students argue when given this task, without having first struggled with issues of variance in another task.  They say that IQ tests aren&#8217;t valid, that there are other things important than hiring in IQ, etc.</p>
<p>However, if you look at the SPREAD in the scores for the blue versus the green people, you&#8217;ll see that while, on average, the blue people have a higher IQ, the green people actually have more people with an IQ above 104.  In fact if you took the average of the top 20% of the green people, it would likely be higher than the blue people. Another thing to look at is the variability around the median.  If you find the middle person (that&#8217;s #22), you&#8217;ll see that in the blue people, all the people around #22 have IQ&#8217;s of 101. The green people around #22 have a much higher spread of IQ.</p>
<p>Most people who haven&#8217;t been prepared to think about variability give more meta-arguments about whether or not it&#8217;s useful to compare people on IQ, as you did, and don&#8217;t look at the data.  I&#8217;m not saying your arguments aren&#8217;t good ones, but there are other arguments based on the data that can be made.  Your comment about sample size is a good one based on the data, but there are other data-based arguments to be made.</p>
<p>Thanks for your post!</p>
<p>Stephanie</p>
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		<title>By: Lorn</title>
		<link>http://blog.sciencegeekgirl.com/2008/11/17/why-students-fail-to-transfer-what-they-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-490</link>
		<dc:creator>Lorn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 14:03:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sciencegeekgirl.com/?p=840#comment-490</guid>
		<description>My arguments against The Industrialist Who Hires Blue People:

0. your logic is deeply flawed, Sir, because:
1. the difference (98 to 101) is too small for any conclusion especailly since
2. the sample population is too small and
3. sorting people by color is unwarranted and
4. not correlated with the (small) data and
5. offensive and furthermore
6. IQ and &quot;smarter&quot; are not synonyms and
7. you clearly need to revise what you expect from your employees or the smart ones will stay away from you.

Great post. I couldn&#039;t resist solving the task. Did I get it right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My arguments against The Industrialist Who Hires Blue People:</p>
<p>0. your logic is deeply flawed, Sir, because:<br />
1. the difference (98 to 101) is too small for any conclusion especailly since<br />
2. the sample population is too small and<br />
3. sorting people by color is unwarranted and<br />
4. not correlated with the (small) data and<br />
5. offensive and furthermore<br />
6. IQ and &#8220;smarter&#8221; are not synonyms and<br />
7. you clearly need to revise what you expect from your employees or the smart ones will stay away from you.</p>
<p>Great post. I couldn&#8217;t resist solving the task. Did I get it right?</p>
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